I spent most of the other day at the hospital, supporting my best friend as she had surgery.
Surgery is no fun, but the real problem is all the stress before it: Worry. Signing living wills. Worst case sceaniros played out in your head.
Once you’re in the hospital, though, the procedure happens pretty fast (depending on your needs, of course).
I was amazed to see so many people come in and go out the same day. I was beginning to think I was sitting at a fast food place, watching people drive up, place their order, drive around back to get it, and then go home.
I asked one of the staff how many surgeries they did that day. I was astonished to hear sixty-four.
Sixty-four surgeries in one day?
In just one little hospital?
I’d call that drive-thru surgery.
What a wild, wonderful time we live in.
But what I am really curious about is the experience of having anesthesia.
I had it last January when I went through an emergency appendectomy.
I wondered about it then.
When they knock you out, where do you go?
It’s not sleep, as you don’t wake up refreshed.
It’s not unconsciousness, like when you’re blacked out from a fall, because you don’t recall anything at all; not even “blackness”.
It’s not a near-death experience, as there aren’t any white lights or ghostly beings, and you don’t recall a single thing.
I asked the anesthesiologist what happened during anesthesia.
“No one knows,” he said. “There have been numerous studies done but all we know is the mind disengages from the body.”
Rightly so, too.
The mind doesn’t need to be there.
But why?
How?
And where does the mind go?
I asked one medical doctor and he said:
“This is truly one of the hottest topics in academic consciousness
studies. This very question is what has obsessed a couple of
academics in this area, and led to one of the most interesting
theories of ‘consciousness’, which relates to microtubules in the
brain, which seem to be affected by anesthesia.
“It may be that *only* the witness is *awake* under anesthesia, and that the witness experiences only silence and *the void* under deep anesthesia, but there may be much more that happens, that we are not privy to, because it is too deep.
“This is one of the interesting correspondences with the ‘divided mind’ theory, or ‘division theory,’ which is well presented in what I consider one of the most important books of the 20th century, The Lost Secret of Death, by Peter Novak.”
Fascinating.
I still don’t know where the mind goes during surgery.
I’m just glad it goes someplace.
I’m going to fish for that book and see what it unfolds.
Meanwhile, stay healthy.
Ao Akua,
Joe
www.mrfire.com
PS — In Zero Limits my coauthor and I talk about the “zero state.” Maybe that’s where the mind goes? It just dissolves into zero? It reaches the blank state of nothingness and “you” aren’t there? Hmmmmm.
13 Comments
This was really interesting Joe.
I’m a vegetarian, I drink maybe 6 glasses of wine a month, never smoked, never did drugs and I’m a taekwondo master, some say Grandmaster.
On May 18th I had a heart attack!!! I was getting a hair cut and got shivering cold to the bone. I went home and wrapped up in blankets … then I got hot! And when I got hot my chest started to HURT…. I’ve not been to a doctor in 30 years to I called my cousin who is an MD and he sent an ambulance for me.
I was in emergency for 20 minutes and quickly on to the catherization lab.
I was on a morophine drip and it didn’t stop the pain.
In fact I screamed like-a-little-girl. When I tell this story to my karate buddies I leave that part out, LoL. I remember the doctor saying in his deep Ugandan voice, “Hang on my friend, we are going to stop this pain.” And he tells me I replied, “I know that doc, and I’m going to keep screaming until the pain stops.”
Shortly after that, my heart stoped…but just for an instant and then it started itself up. It just needed a break I guess?
I must of passed out when it stoped beating because the next thing I remember was the euphoria of no pain. And I was ready to go home.
It turned out that the “Widow Maker Artery” was 100% closed! Just the name of the artery sends shivers down my spine, but I never felt like I was going to die. I don’t know if people that do die know it or not. But I never felt terminal and I consider myself pretty spiritual and intune with my body. But there was no white light, no life passing before my eyes. Just peace.
I recovered quickly and everyone said, “This doesen’t make sense for you.” No family history, your live a wholesome lifestyle. With the exception of being 30 lbs overweight, I have zero risk factors.
So where did my mind go … I’m studying to be a Journey Practicioner based upon the studies of Brandon Bays. In the program they say that in the stillness the lies between thoughts … there is God. So lets hope that in that stillness of a stoped heart … there was God.
True to the TRUTH
Sam
Hi Joe.
I can’t fathom why you’re curious about this. Surely it’s no different than our sleep, except it’s a whole lot deeper.
Our dreams only account for a fraction of our sleep time, and many people can sleep through a volcanic eruption. I doubt the mind goes anywhere unless we have a ‘NDE’. Many studies have shown that the mind certainly DOES leave the body then.
If you lived over here in the UK you’d have FAR more pressing issues on entering hospital. They are morally bankrupt, inefficient places where you literally play ‘Russian-Roullette’ with your life. (No Exaggeration here at all).
I could write a book just on my own families experiences, let alone the thousands of others who have their lives ‘devastated’ by what our government laughingly calls ‘The National HEALTH Service’.
In fact, I might just go off now and write it. Thanks for the ‘prod’ Joe.
All the very best.
Pete.
Hi Pete. Well, it’s most definetley different than sleep. Sleep doesn’t even come close to describing the situation of being totally unconscious under anesthiasia. And as for your health system over there, you better alert Michael Moore. His movie “Sicko” portrays your system as one the US should model and aspire to be.
joe 🙂
Here are a couple of things to consider when thinking about the mind under anesthetics:
One of the drugs commonly used in the “cocktail” of general anesthetics causes what they call “retroactive amnesia.” That’s a side effect of it — not it’s main purpose. It makes it so you can’t remember what happens during the time it’s in effect, which sure influences people’s memories of their actual surgery experiences. It’s also handy for the patient who’s getting lightweight anesthetics for some small surgery where they want the patient conscious enough to be able to answer questions for them during the surgery. This way, if the painkiller isn’t absolutely effective enough throughout the surgery, at the end of it the patient won’t have a memory of the pain (or at least not an easily-accessible memory). Keeps the lawsuits down, too.
Another thing is that Fentynyl is often used, which is an extremely powerful opiate that changes the way the brain perceives pain. Who knows the extent of what other perceptions it changes? Opiates otherwise can cause euphoria even to the extent of hallucination. If that goes on during surgery, wouldn’t it be great to be able to clear the clouds of the other drugs and access the memories of those thoughts? Wild!
One last consideration: The effects of the multiple drugs employed in these cocktails are mainly researched to get information on how they affect pain levels, patients’ conscious awareness of procedures, and how much the body is going to move in response to the procedures (yikes!). Answers to those questions is what the marketplace is looking for. The kind of research that would help answer your questions isn’t cost-effective for the pharmaceutical companies, so I somehow doubt much of it is going on.
So we get to wonder what effects each of the drugs individually have on our brains, and then who knows what interactive effects there are with these drugs in combination? European and Asian researchers are more likely to pursue these questions as their research is not as profit-driven as ours is here in the U.S. And also not so politically influenced. Hard to separate politics and profits here as regards pharmaceutical research. If you’re curious enough, a library of a medical school has online access to international medical journal articles which could be a resource for you. Physicians connected with those institutions have library privileges for that, and I’m sure you’ve got some connections for that.
So if you needed a few more things to be curious about, you’ve got some now! It’s sure a fascinating subject to explore, isn’t it? And I wonder where the mind goes for those who use acupuncture for anesthesia as opposed to drugs?
Thanks for always getting me thinking, and for continually inspiring me.
Your buddy in curiosity, Janet
Hey Joe,
I can relate to being on morphine drip and still feeling pain… I had surgery last year that the Doctor tried to do as a Laparoscopic procedure. That didn’t work so I got the big incision! The thing that hurt the most was not the incision, but the shoulder pain I had from the gas they utilize in the Laparoscopic procedure. I couldn’t believe how much pain that caused and that I could actually feel pain while on morphine!!! An additional pain pill (don’t know what kind, but obviously strong) fixed me up!:mrgreen:
Hi Joe,
I did see the Michael Moore Videos and thought at the time of contacting him,
but he’s taking a knock at ‘The Private’ system over there and the medical insurance back-up. I think you’ll find OUR ‘private’ system is good over here,
but the majority of us couldn’t afford the cover. (Cost per head probably a lot higher in real terms than you chaps pay.)
I take your point about the level of consciousness being far different when under anaesthetic. I wonder if ‘The Brain Apples’ guy has delved into that subject?
Have you checked with their data-base?
Great subject.
Pete.
I’ve suffered extreme pain at one time in my life, and hope to never feel that kind of pain again. If I do, I will try my best to except it with meditiation and prayer (and some strong dope).
This is why when I hit my forties, I started getting “careful” with all physical aspects of life. We can make choices that will hopefully ward off painful experiences.
As far as “where we go”………just finished Deepak’s “Life After Death – Burden of Proof” book, and it was a great ride!
Terry
Joe, I thought you’d like to know that I called ‘authority’ Maryvonne Pelthier in France this morning to question her about what happens during anesthesia.
The whole thing is very complex (pretty mind-blowing actually) , and I’ll just attempt to sum up the gist of what she told me :
In any case , according to her, the mind is far from ” being at zero ” when a person is anesthesized !
” Anesthesia is energetically violent ” , she says.
“Everybody has several energetic bodies ( the physical body, emotional body, mental body, etc…) – During anesthesia, several (usually 2 or 3) of the energetic bodies are ‘projected out of’ or ‘away from’ the physical body ; they move away from the central witness-consciousness and may (easily) be confronted with negative energies from the Low Astral ” ( which apprently co-exists with the material universe, being one step outside of your physical body).
She specified that ” we have, of course, several ‘consciousnesses’, since every energetic body has its own consciousness. ” — I.e. this concerns “every non-enlightened (and thus totally unified) human being, meaning most everybody.”
“While under anesthesia, the witness- consiousness remains acutely aware and positioned near the physical body”.
According to her description the “witness” is then nowhere near “zero” but more like halfway between “a red-alert-panic-state” and a computer on ” sleep ” position, “ready to intervene immediately at the time of awakening from the anesthesia : At this precise moment, the central ” witness ” consiousness has the job of reuniting the various energetic bodies + consciousness.”
This (the moment of awakening) is in fact “the most critical and dangerous moment of the anesthesia, because the readjusting/realigning/reunifying of the different bodies is not necessarily easy” : Amongst other things, there is the possibility of not realigning correctly, and also, as far as I understand, ” It’s like taking off your clothes and forgetting where you left them. ” … In this moment of confusion, the mental and the emotional body are apparently particularly vulnerable to being ” pirated ” by negative Low Astral energies such as errant souls that can ” step into those ‘clothes’ lying around ,and then cling to them. ”
And that’s what her mission is — protecting and helping the energetic bodies to remain in alignment and cleansing/ harmonizing them if they’re not
I suppose — as always — it all boils down to ” To Be, or not to Be.” …
xxx
Elinor
Isn’t it interesting that, under hypnosis, patients can repeat (word for word) everything that was spoken by the surgeons/nurses/staff in the operating room – even though they were under anaesthetic? Hmmm….
A friend of mine was under anaesthetic for back surgery – she was watching them operate on her from the ceiling of the operating room! 🙂 Which part was watching?!! FASCINATING topic.
You’ll have fun here, Joe… http://www.issc-taste.org/arc/dbo.cgi?set=expo&ss=1
(some neat stories)
Brightest Blessings,
Nancy
I want to know where I go when I’m at a classical music concert. No joke — within minutes, my mind is gone. It’s not like falling asleep — I can tell the difference — more like the gone-ness of being in a sensory deprivation float tank (remember those? are they still available anywhere any more?) I liken it to very, very deep hypnotic trance.
I wonder if the “mind” is ever in the body at all, or if it’s just aware of the body that we think it is in. I try not to take anything for granted when it comes to the mind. I would recommend any books written by the Dalai Lama that are geared to consciousness, and also the Tibetan book of the Dead (I hope that’s the exact name of it) for an interesting look at consciousness.
Also, have you ever heard the quote from Lao Tzu. He says that one night he had a dream that he was a butterfly. Then he wondered, once he was “awake” if he was now a butterfly having a dream that he was a man. Very fascinating!
Take a look at information no the drug Versed. It is designed to wipe out recent memory. It is given almost always with anaesthesia.
Love your work, Linda
I’ve one more thing to say about this. Ever heard of Salvia divinorum? It’s also known as the “Diviner’s Sage.” It is considered to be a hallucinogen, and is actually legal (at least here in Canada). If you’re interested in wild consciousness experiences than this is worth looking into. I liken it to dreaming while awake. I could also say it’s like seeing where you go when you are under anaesthesia.(if that even makes any sense). Not for the faint of heart, believe me, and not to ever be used recreationally.